date: Tue Sep 5 16:35:21 2006 from: Keith Briffa subject: Re: urgent IPCC need to: Eystein Jansen eystein i have to leave for austria now for a week - on monday next will send result of consultation for text change regrading the von storch paragraph of our chapter, after discussion with Stefan and john Mitchell - please wait til then keith At 16:13 01/09/2006, you wrote: dear All, thanks for being alert. I think we have an agreement that Martin´s comments are useful, but that we should change only those sentences where they clarify. Otherwise i agree with Stefan and Keith´s statements below. Eystein At 15:45 +0100 01-09-06, Keith Briffa wrote: I forgot to say that I too disagree with removing the first sentence re simulations being consistent with reconstructed NH temps. As Sefan says we need the context , and our results are independent of Chapter 9 in this regard. Keith At 15:37 01/09/2006, Stefan Rahmstorf wrote: Hi Peck, Martin as in Manning? I have found his feedback very useful so far, so we should definitely look at what he suggests - he mostly tends to look for whether our sentences are clear. Obviously, he cannot suggest real changes in meaning, only issues of clarity, but the latter I would take very seriously. Mostly I find his small rewordings good, I comment on the larger points and exceptions below. - I am against deleting the bullet on speed of deglacial change. This point is extremely effective. Just two days ago an oil industry person told me that there have been big natural climate changes like ice ages in the past, hence we need not worry. I responded that the biggest warming in recent climate history was the end of the last Ice Age - but that warming by about 5 ºC took about 5,000 years, not a hundred. "Oh" he said, "Really so long? I didn't know that." I think it is a very important point, we need to make it. Maybe not in term of "average rate", may we should just say: the warming of 4-7 ºC took about 5,000 years, as compared to a future change of up to the same magnitude within a century. - Next ice age bullet in 30k seems fine to me. - exceptional warmth: the SPM said: 20th C T increase likely the largest in a millennium - that is strengthened (perhaps very likely now?) 1990s likely the warmest decade in a millennium - that again is strengthened 1998 likely the warmest year - I'd say this is unchanged (except for 2005 challenging it), likely is only 66%! Even though the annual proxy data may be uncertain, as a physicist I would find it unlikely that there is a mechanism to cause a big warm outlier year that beats 1998 from a much cooler background state. How would that work - where would the heat come from? So in my view we could actually say that these past SPM statements held up or were strengthened - but in fact I also like the bullet as it is. - Paleoclimate model simulations are broadly consistent with the reconstructed NH temperatures over the past 1000 years. The rise in surface temperatures since 1950 very likely cannot be reproduced without including anthropogenic greenhouse gases in the model forcings, and it is very unlikely that this warming was merely a recovery from the pre-20th century cold period. On this I disagree with deleting the first sentence, as the second one needs it to follow logically. And why should the paleo chapter suddenly make a statement on post-1950 warming, if it is not in the context of the past millennium? Cheers, Stefan -- To reach me directly please use: <[1]mailto:rahmstorf@ozean-klima.de>rahmstorf@ozean-klima.de (My former addresses @pik-potsdam.de are read by my assistant Brigitta.) Stefan Rahmstorf <[2]http://www.ozean-klima.de>[3]www.ozean-klima.de [4]www.realclimate.org -- Professor Keith Briffa, Climatic Research Unit University of East Anglia Norwich, NR4 7TJ, U.K. Phone: +44-1603-593909 Fax: +44-1603-507784 [5]http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/people/briffa/ -- ______________________________________________________________ Eystein Jansen Professor/Director Bjerknes Centre for Climate Research and Dep. of Earth Science, Univ. of Bergen Allégaten 55 N-5007 Bergen NORWAY e-mail: eystein.jansen@geo.uib.no Phone: +47-55-583491 - Home: +47-55-910661 Fax: +47-55-584330 -- Professor Keith Briffa, Climatic Research Unit University of East Anglia Norwich, NR4 7TJ, U.K. Phone: +44-1603-593909 Fax: +44-1603-507784 [6]http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/people/briffa/