date: Thu Aug 11 09:48:26 2005 from: Phil Jones subject: Re: logbooks and things to: "Dennis Wheeler" Dennis, I've sent some emails here, but people are away this week. I'm off next week, so maybe you'll get something in a week or two. Cheers Phil At 09:16 11/08/2005, you wrote: Phil, Thanks for your prompt reply. There's clearly some talking to be done in Exeter. I don't know if you are interested, but we are planning a working dinner on the Tuesday evening to review the whole logbook/imaging/digitisation enterprise. Philip Brohan and his people will be there, together with Clive, myself, Scott and Joe. You'd be more than welcome. I'd certainly appreciate anything that you can direct to me with regard to successful (or, even, otherwise) bid documents. regards Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: [1]Phil Jones To: [2]Dennis Wheeler Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 8:44 AM Subject: Re: logbooks and things Dennis, I am planning to come to the marine meeting in Exeter in October. There is an additional day on the Friday for MSLP, which Rob is putting together. On Gibraltar, it would be good to sort out the record once and for all, and if it involves using more of Cadiz, then so be it. It needs to be Gibraltar from the 1850s onwards though as this is by far the easiest to update. So, lets try and work on that. We could discuss this more in Exeter. In the long run it would be useful to try and sort out the temperatures also, but with the elevation and time schedule changes this is likely to be more difficult than MSLP. I've not managed to find the original copies of the Gibraltar data I got from Hubert Lamb. They are likely in my room somewhere, but I would need weeks to go through it. CRU has to clear out a store in a barn about 5 miles away over the next 2 months, so I might find them there! I saw Clive a few weeks ago, so am up to speed on what he's doing. It is good that he's got some funding for another year. As for getting funds from NERC, this is likely to optimistic, but if we don't even try we will never know. We've not been very successful with NERC over the years. They have just changed their submission strategy to an online submission and I've not yet used that. I don't know when deadlines are, but agree that we might stand more chance if it came from here rather than Sunderland. They also do joint submissions. I'm away next week, so I'll send a couple of emails to see if I can get sent (to you) copies of some recent successful ones - one for a new researcher and one for one of the thematic programs. NERC have an enabling fund, but calls for this have been stopped for this year as they are short of cash. We've been looking into this for updating some of widely used high-res datasets, and it seemed possible until the fund was dropped for a year. With NERC though we should use the impetus of the US and the CLIWOC special issue and the EU book. As for Catherine, I spoke to her a while ago. I've had that topic on the list for a few years, had some interest from students, but not been successful here as I have too many students at the moment. Some have completed now or will do soon, so I might have more chance this time (this will be late autumn/winter). Despite all the things you might read in the media, about students not wanting to do PhDs, we still require them to have a first and an MSc. We still manage to get them. Maybe this coming year will be different though. If you give her a good reference and say she is excellent, I might stand more chance. Also say topic is great also. I've probably rambled on enough now.... Cheers Phil At 20:59 10/08/2005, you wrote: Phil, As promised, Ive written to keep you up-to-date with developments and also, although more of that later, to seek your expert advice. Firstly, Ive been reworking the early Gibraltar air pressure data. As you may know, Ive not been entirely happy with the 1821-1852 part of the series. Ive been out to Gibraltar (courtesy of a grant from the RMS Legacy Fund) and abstracted again the 0900 series to check its accuracy, but Ive also taken the 1200 and 1700 observations for completeness and added the temperature obs for the same fixed hours. Time limited me to securing only the 1821 to 1830 part of the three decades. However, Ive been able to set these data against those for Cadiz for the same period (the INM kindly sent me photocopies of the very many original sheets that contain the latter and they gone on for many more years). The results so far but theyre far from complete suggest that my concerns may be unfounded. If this is the case, then the data are good but their behaviour suggests something very unusual about pressure variations at the southern end of the NAO for these years. Either way, Im becoming convinced that the Cadiz data would be a better basis for these years. Although they would need to be homogenised into the Gibraltar set. But this wouldnt be difficult. Ill keep you posted. Theres still a way to go on this, but it looks promising. By the way, Ive been asked to send a reference on behalf of a former CLIWOC abstractor, Catharine Ward, who wants to work on your Paris data project and the NAO ramifications. Ill get this off to you in the post tomorrow apologies for the delay. Secondly, logbook studies are continuing and, happily, within a new EU grant. You may have heard that Danny McCarroll (Swansea) led a successful bid for a so-called Millennium project which is, essentially, a European version of your work with Mike Mann for the 1000-year climate record. Doubtless the EU wanted a European version for political reasons but, as youll appreciate more than anyone, theres a good scientific basis for such a regional expression of the global scheme that you have produced with Mike. But I digress; I was asked to join the documentary team of the project (there others are for dendrochronology, terrestrial sediments, marine sediments and a multi-proxy calibration team) by Rudolf Brazdil. My brief is to supply logbook data, but Ive also written myself in to take care of the Gibraltar-Cadiz series, so I should be able to complete the unfinished work mentioned above. I have about 110,000 and will be able to employ one abstractor for at least a year, maybe longer. Its nothing on the CLIWOC scale, but were only using logbooks from the NE Atlantic and, helpfully, the Mediterranean. Clive, as you will probably know, is employed for this year by NCDC and is, with his usual attention to detail and thoroughness, preparing a directory of logbooks that can be expected to supply useful (mostly instrumental) climatic data. Scott and Joe Elms have secured about $700,000 for logbook digitisation, leaving the UK people to secure money to provide the images. Their funds, for reasons of US Government policy, cannot be spent outside the USA and Clives employment is a bit of a one-off exception. As a result Im trying to get money to produce a very large number of logbook images. Im working with Philip Brohan, Simon Tett and Rob Allen with a view to approaching NERC. The US support is obviously helpful but, on the other hand, I dont think that wed get much change from asking NERC for money to take lots of photos! So were thinking of tying the whole thing in with some research at the Hadley Centre and focussing on those logbooks that provide instrumental data. At the moment our plan, such as it is, is to consider using these data to test proxy and multi-proxy calibrations from other independently-derived series. Of course, the US folk would get copies for their warehouses full of people to digitise, but we might need to underplay that side of things. Id very much welcome your thoughts on this one Phil. Also, if its possible and practical, Id like to see a copy of a climate-based bid that has gone forward to NERC. Could you let me have such a thing without breaking confidences etc.? Ive not applied to them before, and Im a little in the dark on what they might expect in a bid document. The regulations will require that myself and the University are the leaders as the UK Met Office cannot receive funds directly from NERC. Alternatively, might CRU be interested in becoming involved? At this stage were open to any offers of support, guidance or participation. Needless to say, Im concerned that the university of Sunderland will not carry a great deal of academic weight with NERC. Otherwise, Ive had no luck elsewhere and its all a little embarrassing given the Americans enthusiasm and commitment. I probably beginning to ramble a bit here, so Ill close, but let me know your views on this and the other matters above. Scott and Joe Elms are coming over for the MARCDAT II meeting in Exeter in October. Clive is attending also, and Im giving short presentation on the instrumental data to be found in the logbooks of the EIC ships. Do you plan to attend? Regards Dennis Prof. Phil Jones Climatic Research Unit Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090 School of Environmental Sciences Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784 University of East Anglia Norwich Email p.jones@uea.ac.uk NR4 7TJ UK ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Prof. Phil Jones Climatic Research Unit Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090 School of Environmental Sciences Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784 University of East Anglia Norwich Email p.jones@uea.ac.uk NR4 7TJ UK ----------------------------------------------------------------------------