cc: "Briffa Keith Prof \(ENV\)" , "Jones Philip Prof \(ENV\)" date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 15:21:25 +0000 from: Tim Osborn subject: Re: FW: FOI_08-50 ; EIR_08-01 to: "Palmer Dave Mr \(LIB\)" , "Mcgarvie Michael Mr \(ACAD\)" Dave -- are you saying you want us to review and/or send you every email or document containing McIntyre's name... is that right? And what about paper records with his name on (e.g. print-outs of now-deleted emails)? Tim At 09:51 25/11/2008, Palmer Dave Mr \(LIB\) wrote: >Gents, >Please note the below. I am not in a position to deal with the >substance of Mr. McIntyre's comments but now have to handle his >request under DPA (which means a troll through your files for >material that identifies Mr. McIntyre). Please note that under the >DPA, comments about an individual are the personal data of that >individual and subject to access under a DPA subject access >request. Ergo, I would strongly advise all to be careful in what >you put in your correspondence. >As to this specific DPA request, I will require proof of identity, >£10, and a form before we proceed but I do assume that all will be >forthcoming upon request. We then have 40 calendar days to respond. > >Cheers, Dave > > >---------- >From: Steve McIntyre [mailto:stephen.mcintyre@utoronto.ca] >Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 9:28 PM >To: Palmer Dave Mr (LIB) >Subject: FOI_08-50 ; EIR_08-01 > >Dear Mr Palmer, > >Dr Philip Jones of your university recently sent the following email >to 17 climate scientists, commenting unfavorably on my FOI inquiry >FOI_08-50 ; EIR_08-01. Please note that I had not made any public >disclosure of this follow-up inquiry. Under the Data Protection >Act, I request that you provide me with any other "personal records" >pertaining to me, including any correspondence received by or sent >by UEA and/or CRU. > >In addition, in the email, Jones made false and misleading >statements regarding my inquiry to you and I request that you deal >with these statements according to your responsibilities. > >Jones said that "we put up all the individual tree-ring series >(widths, densities)". This statement was untrue. Some ring width >and density series were not available - they are the ones that I >requested in Item 5. Had Jones put up "all" the series, then this >request would have been unnecessary. Because CRU did not put up >"all" the data, it was entirely reasonable for me to request the >missing data. Jones' misrepresentation of the inquiry creates a bad >impression of me, in a situation where the fault lay with CRU. > >Jones also complained that I want to "know why some individual >series were excluded from the chronologies" and complained that "if >they just did some paleo fieldwork with trees, corals, sediment >cores they might understand why some samples are excluded." My >inquiry pertained to inconsistencies between the list of sites >provided in reponse to my FOI request and the procedures reported in >the original articles and/or the website and was entirely >reasonable. I have considerable personal experience with reporting >requirements for mineral exploration fieldwork, which is strictly >regulated by securities commissions, and am quite confident that, >contrary to Jones' allegations, the above inconsistencies do not >arise out of the exigencies of fieldwork, but out of avoidable >inaccuracy on the part of CRU in describing the procedures actually >used. Again, Jones' misrepresentation of the situation creates a >bad impression of me, when the fault lay with CRU. > >Regards, Steve McIntyre > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Phil Jones [mailto:p.jones@uea.ac.uk] >Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 7:43 AM >To: santer1@llnl.gov; Steve McIntyre >Cc: Thorne, Peter; Leopold Haimberger; Karl Taylor; Tom Wigley; John >Lanzante; Susan Solomon; Melissa Free; peter gleckler; Thomas R >Karl; Steve Klein; carl mears; Doug Nychka; Gavin Schmidt; Steven >Sherwood; Frank Wentz; Professor Glenn McGregor >Subject: Re: FW: Santer et al 2008 > > > > Ben, > Your response is already up on the Climate Audit site, and when >I looked there > were over 50 comments. Don't feel picked on - we in CRU had another >FOI request > related to tree-ring data yesterday as well. It is in a similar >vein. We put up all > the individual tree-ring series (widths, densities) - i.e. what we >consider the raw > data. He already had the chronologies. He now wants to know why >some individual > series were excluded from the chronologies and why some chronologies were > excluded in subsequent analyses. This time they have asked for manuals, > computer code and correspondence explaining the exclusions! It >seems neverending. > If they just did some paleo fieldwork with trees, corals, > sediment cores they > might understand why some samples are excluded. > > I would urge the 4 NOAA people on the paper to make a joint response to the > FOI request when it filters through that the raw data for our paper are all > publically available. I know it's not in their (skeptic) make up, >but the sooner they > get their hands dirty with the sorts of analyses we/you've done for >this and many > other papers the better. They seem only to want to come in at the >interpretational > end, particularly on the statistical side. > > Cheers > Phil > >At 20:10 10/11/2008, Ben Santer wrote: > >Dear Mr. McIntyre, > > > >I gather that your intent is to "audit" the findings of our > >recently-published paper in the International Journal of Climatology > >(IJoC). You are of course free to do so. I note that both the > >gridded model and observational datasets used in our IJoC paper are > >freely available to researchers. You should have no problem in > >accessing exactly the same model and observational datasets that we > >employed. You will need to do a little work in order to calculate > >synthetic Microwave Sounding Unit (MSU) temperatures from climate > >model atmospheric temperature information. This should not pose any > >difficulties for you. Algorithms for calculating synthetic MSU > >temperatures have been published by ourselves and others in the > >peer-reviewed literature. You will also need to calculate > >spatially-averaged temperature changes from the gridded model and > >observational data. Again, that should not be too taxing. > > > >In summary, you have access to all the raw information that you > >require in order to determine whether the conclusions reached in our > >IJoC paper are sound or unsound. I see no reason why I should do > >your work for you, and provide you with derived quantities (zonal > >means, synthetic MSU temperatures, etc.) which you can easily > compute yourself. > > > >I am copying this email to all co-authors of the 2008 Santer et al. > >IJoC paper, as well as to Professor Glenn McGregor at IJoC. > > > >I gather that you have appointed yourself as an independent arbiter > >of the appropriate use of statistical tools in climate research. > >Rather that "auditing" our paper, you should be directing your > >attention to the 2007 IJoC paper published by David Douglass et al., > >which contains an egregious statistical error. > > > >Please do not communicate with me in the future. > > > >Ben Santer > >Steve McIntyre wrote: > >>Could you please reply to the request below, Regards, Steve McIntyre > >> > >>-----Original Message----- > >>*From:* Steve McIntyre > [mailto:stephen.mcintyre@utoronto.ca] > >>*Sent:* Monday, October 20, 2008 1:29 PM > >>*To:* ' (santer1@llnl.gov)' > >>*Subject:* Santer et al 2008 > >>Dear Dr Santer, > >> > >>Could you please provide me either with the monthly model data (49 > >>series) used for statistical analysis in Santer et al 2008 or a > >>link to a URL. I understand that your version has been collated > >>from PCMDI ; my interest is in a file of the data as you used it (I > >>presume that the monthly data used for statistics is about 1-2 MB) . > >> > >>Thank you for your attention, > >> > >>Steve McIntyre > > > > > >-- > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >----- > >Benjamin D. Santer > >Program for Climate Model Diagnosis and Intercomparison > >Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory > >P.O. Box 808, Mail Stop L-103 > >Livermore, CA 94550, U.S.A. > >Tel: (925) 422-3840 > >FAX: (925) 422-7675 > >email: santer1@llnl.gov > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Prof. Phil Jones >Climatic Research Unit Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090 >School of Environmental Sciences Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784 >University of East Anglia >Norwich Email p.jones@uea.ac.uk >NR4 7TJ >UK >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Dr Timothy J Osborn, Academic Fellow Climatic Research Unit School of Environmental Sciences University of East Anglia Norwich NR4 7TJ, UK e-mail: t.osborn@uea.ac.uk phone: +44 1603 592089 fax: +44 1603 507784 web: http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/~timo/ sunclock: http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/~timo/sunclock.htm