cc: Gavin Schmidt date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:46:05 -0400 from: "Michael E. Mann" subject: [Fwd: Jones et al] to: Phil Jones Phil, Gavin has some good advice here, seems to reinforce the thoughts in your earlier email and Ben's suggestion as well. Probably best to put the data up in their most raw format (except for those you can't legally--in those cases give a pointer to the person involved). This will, as Gavin notes, blunt the line of attack that has the greatest traction. If there is some way we can be helpful via RealClimate (e.g. in helping get the word out that the data have been posted once available, etc), please let us know. I'm happy for us to use this as a resource in any way that might be helpful. mike -- Michael E. Mann Associate Professor Director, Earth System Science Center (ESSC) Department of Meteorology Phone: (814) 863-4075 503 Walker Building FAX: (814) 865-3663 The Pennsylvania State University email: mann@psu.edu University Park, PA 16802-5013 http://www.met.psu.edu/dept/faculty/mann.htm Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on mail.meteo.psu.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.0 required=10.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.3 X-Original-To: mann@meteo.psu.edu Delivered-To: mann@meteo.psu.edu Received: from tr10n04.aset.psu.edu (tr10g04.aset.psu.edu [128.118.142.105]) by mail.meteo.psu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B077A204B4D for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 13:32:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from isotope.giss.nasa.gov (A-169-154-208-65.giss.nasa.gov [169.154.208.65]) by tr10n04.aset.psu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.2) with ESMTP id l3OHW5ap055008 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 13:32:05 -0400 Received: from isotope.giss.nasa.gov (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by isotope.giss.nasa.gov (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l3OHXBDo021942 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 13:33:11 -0400 Received: (from gavin@localhost) by isotope.giss.nasa.gov (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id l3OHXBS8021940 for mann@psu.edu; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 13:33:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: isotope.giss.nasa.gov: gavin set sender to gschmidt@giss.nasa.gov using -f Subject: Jones et al From: Gavin Schmidt To: "Michael E. Mann" In-Reply-To: <462A2044.7020809@meteo.psu.edu> References: <20070421113553.90D3320401A@mail.meteo.psu.edu> <462A158E.2030204@meteo.psu.edu> <1535.24.8.147.161.1177165452.squirrel@webmail.cgd.ucar.edu> <462A2044.7020809@meteo.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Message-Id: <1177435990.4637.3528.camel@isotope.giss.nasa.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 (1.2.2-5) Date: 24 Apr 2007 13:33:11 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-sophos X-PSU-Spam-Flag: NO X-PSU-Spam-Hits: 2 X-PSU-Spam-Level: ** Mike, This current situation is a little tricky. As we saw with the whole HS affair, very few things have traction like the idea that data is being withheld (possibly only suppression of free speech is as powerful). You don't need to know your PC from your elbow to see that as an issue and so it easily catches fire among those who would like to see the whole issue go away but who don't know anything about it. However, the listing of the sites and sources etc. is completely peripheral to the real motivations (as you and Kevin correctly note). Phil is being targeted solely because of the three databases for the global SAT trends, his is the only one for which the raw data is not available. All of the issues could be examined using the NOAA or GISS analyses but what would be the point? The idea is not to find out anything interesting, but to keep pushing the 'data is being hidden' meme. If Phil were to release the whole database, they would spend a week trying to do something, but then get bored and move on to someone else who is apparently hiding something. These games that are being played with the FOIA requests and the like aren't going to stop - just playing those games is enough for these people, regardless of the response, because the very fact they're doing it leads people to think the data is hidden. The current situation where they ask ridiculous and irrelevant questions and the response is well-meaning but 'lawyerly' just feeds the fire. They aren't interested in asking questions that can be answered, but in asking questions that just put Phil on the defensive. The less he can respond, the happier they will be. Frankly, I would simply put the whole CRU database (in an as-impenetrable-as-possible form) up on the web site along with a brief history of it's provenance (and the role of the NMSs) and be done with it. If specific NMS contracts forbid posting of their raw data, then he should remove the ones that he contractually can't post and direct peoples attentions to the NMS's concerned. Why should Phil be the fall guy for nutty 'commercial' restrictions imposed by various governments? Bottom line: This isn't going to stop. Gavin PS. feel free to forward to Phil et al if you like.