date: Fri Feb 4 16:51:39 2005 from: Phil Jones subject: Re: A few comments to: "Richard Gyllencreutz" , dhebbeln@uni-bremen.de Dear Dierk and Richard, I still have not found any quality time to look at the draft. I also now have the Iberian paper which arrived a couple of days ago. Both hard copies are in my bag for the flight to Madrid on Sunday and also on my laptop. So, I hope to get to them both - your one first though ! A few thoughts though on the current email. I would echo the points about using calendar dates. You have done well to put AD before the date. The Iberians have it after everywhere ! If you can I would omit reference to the MWP and LIA. The jury is still out (and will likely never come to a verdict) on whether the periods existed or how long they were if they did. If you want to say something the 10th and 11th centuries were likely the warmest of the last 3000 years (up to and including the 19th century). The coldest two centuries were the 17th and 19th for the last 2000 years. The 6th may also have been as cold, but there is much less evidence. I will at least get to the introduction and discussion/conclusions. Cheers Phil At 15:47 04/02/2005, Richard Gyllencreutz wrote: Dear Dierk (and Phil), I hope you received my revised version of the manuscript. I forgot to mention my revision of the last sentences of the abstract, which I hope is a more efficient wording. I have some further comments: On page 10 (I think it would be good to insert page numbers before submitting), I think its better to use the word "documented" instead of "reported", and to use appriximate ages instead of the terms LIA and MWP. See the new suggested text versions 1 and 2 below. 1) Higher Atlantic sea surface temperatures has been documented in several cores from the Norwegian margin from ca AD 1200 to AD 1400-1450 (Koç and Jansen, 2002; Risebrobakken et al., 2003; Andersson et al., 2003) and from fjords in western Norway from ca AD 1300-1350 to AD 1550-1600 (Mikalsen, 2001; Klitgaard Kristensen et al., 2004). 2) This is supported by data from Björck and Clemmensen (2004), where aeolian sand influx in raised bogs in southwestern Sweden indicate increased winter storminess from ca AD 1450 to AD 1900, preceded by about 700 years of low values. Another, more problematic point (Here I especially address Phil): After reading Hughes and Diaz (1994, Climatic Change 26 "Was there a MWP, and if so, where and when?"), I am not really convinced about the sentence "While the MWP is often seen as the warmest period since the Holocene climatic optimum (Reference?), the LIA is referred to as the coldest period since the Younger Dryas (Folland et al., 1990)." The IPCC volume (Houghton et al., 1990) which includes the Folland reference above, was criticised due to inadequate data regarding the MWP by Hughes and Diaz (1994, p.136). However, according to Hughes and Diaz (1994), it seems safe to assume that the medieval warm period was warmer than the following 600 years. Crowley and Lowery (2000, Ambio 29) writes: "To conclude, a new compilation of evidence for Medieval warmth indicates 3 relatively short-lived warming intervals (10101040, 10701105, and 11551190) that are comparable to the mid-20th century warm period. Scaling of the hemispheric composite to the Northern Hemisphere temperature records suggests that Little Ice Age temperatures were about 0.450.50°C colder than the mid-20th century warm period and that mean temperatures between 10001200 were only about 0.20°C warmer than the Little Ice Age." Since it seems hard to find any reference supporting the statement above, I think we should express our opinion a bit more cautious, but I don't know how. What do you think? What does Phil Jones say about this? Maybe we should just wrap it and leave it for the referees? cheers Richard At 10:49 2005-02-03, you wrote: Dear all, thanks to Dorthe for realising that the final version of our HOLSMEER paper sent around yesterday was not the real final but an older version. Sorry, obviously there are too many folders and files on my computer. Please, find NOW attached the final version for a last check. Cheers, Dierk ********************************************************** Dr. Dierk Hebbeln Tel. +49-421-2189079 FB Geowissenschaften Fax +49-421-2189080 Universität Bremen dhebbeln@uni-bremen.de Postfach 330440 D-28334 Bremen Germany The following section of this message contains a file attachment prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format. If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any other MIME-compliant system, you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer. If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance. ---- File information ----------- [1]File: Northern Coastal Sites HOLSMEER paper.doc Date: 2 Feb 2005, 16:38 Size: 2354688 bytes. Type: Unknown ___________________________________ Richard Gyllencreutz Department of Geology and Geochemistry Stockholm University SE-10691 Stockholm Sweden Ph:+46-8-674 77 25 Fax: +46-8-674 78 97 richard.gyllencreutz@geo.su.se ___________________________________ Med en geolog, man menar, en, vars levebröd är stenar Prof. Phil Jones Climatic Research Unit Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090 School of Environmental Sciences Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784 University of East Anglia Norwich Email p.jones@uea.ac.uk NR4 7TJ UK ----------------------------------------------------------------------------