date: Fri Jul 11 09:30:28 2008 from: Phil Jones subject: Fwd: Re: AW: my definite draft version posed to discussion, to: d.efthymiadis@uea.ac.uk And the other one. Phil Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 19:14:18 +0200 To: Phil Jones From: David Frank Subject: Re: AW: my definite draft version posed to discussion, correcting and completing Cc: ulf.buentgen@wsl.ch, Rob Wilson X-Spam-Score: undef - message too big (size: 1586221, limit: 153600) X-CanItPRO-Stream: UEA:f028 (inherits from UEA:default,base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: Bayes signature not available X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 139.222.131.185 Hi Phil, (cc: Ulf, Rob) The Pyrenees record and preprint are attached. Although this was not treated as a regional reconstruction publication, i would contact Rob to see about including t(his) Alpine record. Agreed about the smoothing. Thanks. Interestingly, simple and not often thought about decisions (e.g, fit first and then smooth or vice versa) often have non-trivial consequences. cheers, David cc. Ulf, Rob David, The Pyrenees record sounds a useful inclusion - they aren't that far from the Alps. I'm keen to only use results from papers that have produced a reconstruction. I'm aware of what Keith and Tom are doing here with others from the old project, but this work is still ongoing. So maybe you can send the Pyrenees reconstruction, or should I contact Ulf. Reinhard is supposed to be sending me some more series he has collected. This may include the lakes stuff you mention. Rob Wilson's work if there is a reconstruction would be useful. Smoothing the series highlights the differences more than the plot in your abstract where the interannual timescale is highlighted. Cheers Phil At 17:03 09/07/2008, you wrote: Hi Phil, Perhaps other T-records not on the list might include: Rob Wilson's compilation for the Alps used in D'Arrigo et al. 2006 and additional glacial records from Haberli/Holzhauser. I guess Keith and Tom were working towards putting together lots of long-term tree-ring data including material from the WSL, Grabner & Nicolussi (Austria), Urbinati/Carrer (Italy) for a definitive Alpine tree-ring reconstruction. Either such a composite or some of these individual records should be included. If not loosing the spatial focus to much for you, it might also be reasonable to consider Ulf's new reconstruction for the Pyrenees (in press at Clim Dyn). There is a a bunch of stuff from lakes recently published (Alex Blass / Martin Grosjean), but i am not too familiar with this. We are currently producing a composite record of different MXD chronologies (Ulf's Lötschental, the old Lauenen record, and some newer data from Kurt Nicolussi from Tirol - Keith and Tom have these records) but focusing on extremes rather than long-term variations. The goal is to compare this with Pfisters work. Giovanna Battipaglia (a post doc) is working on this. Many people are starting to measure longer isotope series from tree-rings. However, I am not sure if /when these might turn into formal climate reconstructions.... Not sure if this helps much. At least the list of "usual suspects" is slowly lengthening with time! I attach an abstract that i put together for a meeting. This was closely related to some text/work that i did in thinking about the proxy-instrumental comparisons and Reinhards current paper. cheers, David At 15:22 Uhr +0100 9.7.2008, Phil Jones wrote: David, I have plans to write-up what was planned at the end of ALP-IMP. This was what was in WP9. I have a draft paper from almost 2 years ago. Reinhard is going to send me all the proxy data/sources that he has collected in the last year or so. I still have Dimitrios here and he has started doing some plots and correlations. For trees we have the series from Ulf's papers which have publication dates in 2005 and 2006. Are there others that we should be using? I wanted to mainly stick to the GAR and continental Europe. Not keen to go much further afield with more distant proxies. Also trying to stick to the period since 1500. Apart from Ulf's series we also have the grape-harvest dates from Meier and Chiune et al, Jurg Luterbacher's reconstructions, Mangini et al's stalagmite and also the Oerlemans reconstruction based on glacier lengths. If there are others you think we should be using, can you point us to papers or to the data. Cheers Phil Prof. Phil Jones Climatic Research Unit Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090 School of Environmental Sciences Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784 University of East Anglia Norwich Email p.jones@uea.ac.uk NR4 7TJ UK ----------------------------------------------------------------------------