cc: raymond s.bradley , Steve Schneider , Keith Briffa , mhughes@ltrr.arizona.edu, mann@multiproxy.evsc.virginia.edu, Scott Rutherford date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:32:25 -0500 from: "Michael E. Mann" subject: Re: FW: The Mann et al "Hockey Stick" Corrected II to: Mike MacCracken p.s. Mike, any appearance of "gloating" over the mistake that had been made by Scott, was incorrectly perceived. I was a bit excited, I suppose, about having established the fact that I knew we hadn't, in fact, made a mistake--very relieved, and perhaps gloating a bit with respect to that. Sorry this was wrongly taken by some... But the authors were given the correct information, the publically available link, and I think Scott is sending out a full transcript of the exchanges between them which will make it clear that Scott's efforts were in good faith. Scott--I didn't receive this yet. Can you make sure these folks get this... mike At 09:12 AM 10/29/2003 -0500, Mike MacCracken wrote: A good example of why making sure they got good data would have relieved everyone of having to try to catch up with this wildfire of misinformation. Mike ---------- From: Timo Hämeranta Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:31:13 +0200 To: "Akio Kitoh" , "Alan Robock" , "Alexey Fedorov" , "Anders J. Noren" , André L. Berger , André W. Droxler , Andreas Indermühle , "Andrei P. Sokolov" , "Andrew M. Vogelmann" , "Andrew Weaver" , "Anil K. Gupta" , "Antonio J. Busalacchi Jr." , "Atsumu Ohmura" , "Atul K. Jain" , "Benjamin Giese" , "Bernhard Stauffer" , "Bert Bolin" , "Bette L. Otto-Bliesner" , "Bo Nordell" , "Bob Thunell" , "C. D. Keeling" , "Carl Wunsch" , "Carolus J. Schrijver" , "Caspar M. Ammann" , "Chris E. Forest" , "Christian Pfister" , Christian-D. Schönwiese , Claus Fröhlich , "Daniel Sarewitz" , "David G. Vaughan" , "David J. Beerling" , "David R. Easterling" , "David R. Legates" , "David S. Battisti" , "David S. Chapman" , "David W. J. Thompson" , "David W. Lea" , "Dominic Kniveton" , "Donald J. Wuebbles" , "Downs Matthews" , "Drew T. Shindell" , "E. Brendan Roark" , "Edward Hanna" , "Edward R. Cook" , "Ellen S. Mosley-Thompson" , "Eric Post" , "Eugenia Kalnay" , "F. Sherwood Rowland" , "Feng Sheng Hu" , "Fortunat Joos" , "Frank Chapelle" , "Frank Sirocko" , "Frederick A. Michel" , "Freeman J. Dyson" , "Gabriele C. Hegerl" , "Geoffrey B. Love" , "George Kukla" , "George Taylor" , "Gerald Haug" , "Gerard A. Meehl " , "Gerard C. Bond" , "Gerhard J. Herndl" , "Gregg Marland" , "Gunnar Myhre" , "Hans von Storch" , "Harry L. Bryden" , "Henry N. Pollack" , "Hernan De Angelis" , "Hugo Beltrami" , , "Igor Polyakov" , "J. C. King" , "J. Jouzel" , "James C. Zachos" , "James E. Hansen" , "James J. O'Brien" , "James. R. Mahoney" , "Jan Esper" , "Jan Goudriaan" , "Jeong-Woo Kim" , "Joanna D Haigh" , João Vasconcelos , "Joe S. D'Aleo" , "John C. Polanyi" , "John Christy" , "John E. Walsh" , "John F. B. Mitchell" , "John Katzenberger" , "John O. Stone" , "John T. Houghton" , "Jonathan T. Overpeck" , "Jorge L. Sarmiento" , "Josefino C. Comiso" , "Joyce Penner" , "Judith Lean" , Jürg Beer , Jürg Luterbacher , "Karumuri Ashok" , "Katharina Pahnke" , "Keith D. Hage" , "Keith R. Briffa" , "Ken Caldeira" , "Kenneth Jezek" , "Kevin E. Trenberth" , "Kim M. Cobb" , "Kirk A. Smith" , "Klaus Heiss" , "Klaus Pfeilsticker" , "Klaus Toepher" , "Konstantin Vinnikov" , "Kunihiko Kodera" , "Lee C. Gerhard" , "Lee R. Kump" , "Liming Zhou" , "Lonnie G. Thompson" , "Lowell D. Stott" , "M. Kienast" , "M. Lockwood" , "Madhav L. Khandekar" , "Manfred Mudelsee" , "Marie-France Loutre" , "Marika M. Holland" , "Mark C. Serreze" , "Mark Clilverd" , "Mark Z. Jacobson" , "Martin Claussen" , "Martin R. Manning" , "Martin Wild" , "Marty Hoffert" , "Matthew Drinkwater" , "Matthew Huber" , "Michael Bergin" , "Michael C. Gregg" , "Michael E. Mann" , "Michael E. Mauel" , "Michael H. Glantz" , "Michael Oppenheimer" , "Michael Prather" , "Michael S. Timlin" , "Mojib Latif" , "Mokhov I. I." , "Myles R. Allen" , "N. R. Rigozo" , "Natalia G. Andronova" , "Nathan P. Gillett" , "Nicolas Caillon" , "Norman C. Grody" , Olavi Kärner , "Orson van de Plassche" , "Osvaldo Canziani" , "Otto Eugster" , "Paul J. Crutzen" , "Paul Valdes" , "Paul V. Desanker" , "Peter A. Stott" , "Peter Barrett" , "Peter Foukal" , "Peter Huybers" , "Peter T. Doran" , "Peter Thejll" , "Phil Jones" , "Philippe Huybrechts" , "R. Timothy Patterson" , "Rainer Zahn" , "Rajendra K. Pachauri" , "Ranga B. Myneni" , "Rasmus E. Benestad" , "Raymond S. Bradley" , "Reto Knutti" , "Richard A. Anthes" , "Richard B. Alley" , "Richard E. Moritz" , "Richard Gammon" , "Richard H. Moss" , "Richard Seager" , "Robert A. Bindschadler" , "Robert B. Dunbar" , "Robert J. Charlson" , "Robert J. Lempert" , "Robert Mendelsohn" , "Robert Sausen" , "Roger A. Pielke Sr." , "Rolf Sartorius" , "Ronald J. Stouffer" , "Roy W. Spencer" , "Sami Solanki" , "Sarah Raper" , "Shan Sun" , "Simon F.B. Tett" , "Stefan Rahmstorf" , "Stephen G. Warren" , "Stephen H. Schneider" , "Stephen J. Burns" , "S. W. Pacala" , "Steven C. Wofsy" , "Surabi Menon" , "Susan Solomon" , "Theodore L. Anderson" , "Thom Rahn" , "Thomas R Karl" , "Tim P. Barnett" , "Timothy J. Osborn" , "Tom Krimigis" , "Tom M. L. Wigley" , "Tracey Holloway" , "Trevor J. Lewis" , "Ulrich Berner" , "Ulrich Cubasch" , "Ulrich Neff" , "Urs Neu" , "V. Ramanathan" , "V. Ramaswamy" , "Wallace S. Broecker" , "Walter Munk" , "William J. Ingram" , "William R. Peltier" , "Wolfgang Seiler" , "Zhong Liu" , "Zohgci Zhao" , "Peter B. deMenocal" , "Spencer R. Weart" Cc: "Climatesceptics" , "A. Franz Gerl" , "Adolf J. Giger" , "Agust Bjarnason" , "Al Arking" , "Al Pekarek" , "Anton Uriarte" , "Arthur Doucette" , "Aynsley Kellow" , "Bernd Stroeher" , "Bjorn Lomborg" , "Bob Ferguson" , "Bob Foster" , "Brian A. Tinsley" , "Charles F. \"Chick\" Keller" , "Chris de Freitas" , "Christopher Essex" , "Cory VanPelt" , "Craig D. Idso" , "Curt Holder" , "David E. Wojick" , "David H. Douglass" , "David J. Karoly" , "Dick Kahle" , "Douglas V. Hoyt" , "Ed Mercurio" , "Eigil Friis-Christensen" , "Emmanuel Grenier" , "Erhard Borcke" , "Ernesto Lopez-Baeza" , "Ernst-Friedrich Behr" , "Fangqun Yu" , "Francis Massen" , "Fred L. Oliver" , "Frede Vestergaard" , "Frederick Seitz" , "Gary D. Sharp" , "Gerd-Rainer Weber" , "Hans Erren" , "Hans Jelbring" , "Harry S. Priem" , "Hartwig Volz" , "Heinz Hug" , Helmut Böttiger , "Henrik Svensmark" , "Hugh W Ellsaesser" , "Ian Castles" , "Ignacio Lozano" , "Jack Barrett" , "Jan Veizer" , "Jim G. Thornton" , "Joe Friday" , "John Brignell" , "John Emsley" , "John L. Daly" , "John Shotsky" , "Ken Schlichte" , "Kenneth Green" , "Kirill Ya. Kondratyev" , Klaus Öllerer , "Leonid B. Klyashtorin" , "M. Mikhel Mathiesen" , Manfred Müller , "Marcel Leroux" , "Martin Visbeck" , "Michael C. MacCracken" , "Michael Schlesinger" , "Miguel Aguirre Martinez" , "Mukul Sharma" , "Nathan A. Schwadron" , "Neil Griffiths" , "Nicholas Polunin" , Nils-Axel Mörner , "Nir Shaviv" , "Oliver K. Manuel" , Onar Åm , "Oswaldo Garcia" , Otto Wildgrüber , "Patrick J. Michaels" , "Per Ericson" , "Peter Dietze" , "Peter Krahmer" , "Peter Stilbs" , "Petr Chylek" , "Peyman Zawar-Reza" , "Philip Stott" , "Piers Corbyn" , Pål Brekke , "Ralph Mullinger" , "Reid A. Bryson" , "Richard Lundin" , "Richard S. Courtney" , "Richard S. Lindzen" , "Robert Essenhigh" , "Robert M. Carter" , "Ross McKitrick" , "S. Fred Singer" , "Sallie Baliunas" , "Sonja Boehmer-Christiansen" , "Stephen McIntyre" , "Steve Hemphill" , "Steve Mauget" , "Steve Milloy" , "Steve Schulin" , "Theodor Landscheidt" , "Thomas N. Chase" , "Tom V. Segelstad" , "Warwick S. Hughes" , "Werner H. Terjung" , Wibjörn Karlén , "William Kininmonth" , "Willie Soon" , "Wilson Flood" , "Vincent Gray" , "Robert Reinstein" , "Adriaan Perrels" , "Atte Korhola" , "Erkki Hollo" , "Esko Kuusisto" , "Heikki Nevanlinna" , "Heikki Tuomenvirta" , "Ilkka Savolainen" , "Jaakko Helminen" , "Jaakko Kiander" , "Jouko Launiainen" , "Juhani Rinne" , "Juhani Tirkkonen" , Jukka Käyhkö , "Kimmo Ruosteenoja" , Larry Huldén , "Lea Kauppi" , "Markku Kulmala" , "Markku Wilenius" , "Matti Juhala" , "Mikko Alestalo" , "Mikko Kara" , "Pekka Kauppi" , "Petteri Taalas" , "Pirkko Heikinheimo" , "Raino Heino" , "Reijo Solantie" , "Seppo Hannus" , Sirkka Hautojärvi , "Timo Vesala" , "Timothy Carter" Subject: The Mann et al "Hockey Stick" Corrected II Dear all, question has been risen what is this Energy & Environment, which allows free access to its article McIntyre, Stephen and Ross McKitrick, 2003. Corrections to the Mann et. al. (1998) Proxy Data Base and Northern Hemispheric Average Temperature Series. Energy & Environment Vol. 14, No 6, pp. 751-771, October 26, 2003 Freely downloadable from < [1]http://www.multi-science.co.uk/mcintyre_02.pdf > Energy & Environment is a peer-reviewed scientific magazine published by MULTI-SCIENCE PUBLISHING CO. LTD. 5 Wates Way, Brentwood, Essex CM15 9TB, United Kingdom, EU E&E explains the exceptional free access as follows: Message from the publisher "This paper has the power to radically change the debate over man-made global warming. Because of its potential importance we are posting it separately from the rest of the issue of Energy and Environment (volume 14 number 6) in which it appears, and giving open access to it, so that everyone who has an interest in these matters is able to read it and assess it for themselves." W.O.Hughes 28/10/03 See more about E&E < [2]http://www.multi-science.co.uk/index.htm> Now, three interesting pictures: 1) The well-known Mann et al. ³Hockey stick², adapted by the IPCC 2) The original Mann et al. reconstruction and the correction made 3) Both, using 20 year running mean The discrepancy is, well, astonishing . The same data, but results differ? I hope Mann et al will response revealing their methodologies and analysing, whether there are differences in methodologies used. All the best Timo Hämeranta xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Timo Hämeranta, M.LL. Moderator, Climatesceptics Martinlaaksontie 42 B 9 01620 Vantaa Finland, Member State of the European Union Moderator: timohame@yahoo.co.uk Private: timo.hameranta@pp.inet.fi Home page: [3]http://personal.inet.fi/koti/hameranta/climate.htm Moderator of the discussion group "Sceptical Climate Science" [4]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/climatesceptics "To dwell only on horror scenarios of the future shows only a lack of imagination". (Kari Enqvist) "If the facts change, I'll change my opinion. What do you do, Sir" (John Maynard Keynes) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ______________________________________________________________ Professor Michael E. Mann Department of Environmental Sciences, Clark Hall University of Virginia Charlottesville, VA 22903 _______________________________________________________________________ e-mail: mann@virginia.edu Phone: (434) 924-7770 FAX: (434) 982-2137 [5]http://www.evsc.virginia.edu/faculty/people/mann.shtml