cc: n.nicholls@bom.gov.au, Peter.Whetton@csiro.au, Roger.Francey@csiro.au, David.Etheridge@csiro.au, Ian.Smith@csiro.au, Simon.Torok@csiro.au, Willem.Bouma@csiro.au, j.salinger@niwa.com, pachauri@teri.res.in, Greg.Ayers@csiro.au, Rick.Bailey@csiro.au, Graeme.Pearman@csiro.au, mmaccrac@comcast.net, tcrowley@duke.edu, rbradley@geo.umass.edu date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 22:28:22 +1200 from: j.salinger@niwa.co.nz subject: RE: Recent climate sceptic research and the journal Climate to: "Michael E. Mann" , Barrie.Pittock@csiro.au, m.hulme@uea.ac.uk, Barrie.Pittock@csiro.au, mann@virginia.edu, Phil Jones Dear All Good to see some action - and I applaud your initiatives. As a backgrounder I have attached various pieces that have been in the NZ Herald which have either involved Chris de Freitas - or are his 'opinions'. He publishes as 'associate professor in geography'. The NZ Herald is NZ's largest daily metropolitan newspaper. These will show you exactly where he is coming from - and our attempts locally in New Zealand to rebut these. Any actions you do that produce results would be greatly appreciated here, and I will ensure that the appropriate sources get to know! Look forward to updates. Regards to all Jim On 17 Apr 2003, at 13:48, Phil Jones wrote: > > Mike, > I'm in here along with Keith and Tim. Mike Hulme probably as > well. > We're all away here > now until next Wednesday. > > Cheers > Phil > > > At 08:34 17/04/03 -0400, Michael E. Mann wrote: > >Dear Phil et al, > > > >I'm going to try to get ahold of Dick Kerr today to see if I can get > >his interest in doing a story. My guess is that Dick will go for it. > >If so, I'd like to give him a list of names of people to contact for > >comments. > > > >Who is game? > > > >thanks, > > > >mike > > > >At 08:47 AM 4/17/03 +0100, Phil Jones wrote: > > > >> Dear Barrie, > >> My earlier email reply to Neville gives the details of a paper > >> already out there and two more > >> planned. It is clear when these come out we have to be more active > >> in > >> gaining more > >> widespread publicity for them (much more than we normally do). At > >> the > >> moment Ray's > >> extensive paper (with others) in the PAGES volume could be a > >> starting > >> point. > >> Mike Hulme is moving towards your 3b course of action and I'll > >> talk > >> to Hans von Storch, > >> who although he says he's not the Chief Editor is thought of by > >> many to > >> be this de facto. > >> 3c is possible through contacts we all have with editors at > >> Science and > >> Nature. I realise > >> the issues with lobbying groups and I'm sure this has been > >> discussed at > >> the IPCC planning > >> meeting in Marrakesh this week. > >> Let's see how Mike gets on and my talks with Hans (and Tom > >> Crowley) > >> next week. > >> > >> Have a good Easter break - yesterday was the warmest April day > >> for > >> many locations > >> in England since records began, the long daily ones (1890s). > >> > >> Cheers > >> Phil > >> > >> > >> > >>At 16:19 17/04/03 +1000, Barrie.Pittock@csiro.au wrote: > >>>Dear all, > >>> > >>>I just want to throw in some thoughts re appropriate responses to > >>>all this - probably obvious to some of you, but clearly different > >>>from some views expressed. This is not solely a reply to Phil > >>>Jones, as I have read lots of other emails today including all > >>>those interesting ones from Michael Mann. > >>> > >>>1. I completely understand the frustration by some at having to > >>>consider a reply to these nonsense papers, and I agree that such > >>>replies will not get cited much and may in fact draw attention to > >>>papers which deserve to be ignored. > >>> > >>>2. However, ignoring them can be interpreted as not having an > >>>answer, and whether we ignore them or not, there are people and > >>>lobby groups which will push these papers as 'refereed science' > >>>which WILL be persuasive to many small or large decision-makers who > >>>are NOT competent to make their own scientific judgements, and some > >>>of whom wish the enhanced GH effect would turn out to be a myth. In > >>>our Australian backwater for example, such papers WILL/ARE being > >>>copied to business executives and politicians to bolster anti-FCCC > >>>decisions, and these people do matter. There has to be a > >>>well-argued and authoritative response, at least for private > >>>circulation, and as a basis for advice to these decision-makers. > >>> > >>>3. I see several possible courses of action that would be useful. > >>>(a) Prepare a background briefing document for wide private > >>>circulation, which refutes the claims and lists competent > >>>authorities who might be consulted for advice on this issue. (b) > >>>Ensure that such misleading papers do not continue to appear in the > >>>offending journals by getting proper scientific standards applied > >>>to refereeing and editing. Whether that is done publicly or > >>>privately may not matter so much, as long as it happens. It could > >>>be through boycotting the journals, but that might leave them even > >>>freer to promulgate misinformation. To my mind that is not as good > >>>as getting the offending editors removed and proper processes in > >>>place. Pressure or ultimatums to the publishers might work, or > >>>concerted lobbying by other co-editors or leading authors. (c) A > >>>journalistic expose of the unscientific practices might work and > >>>embarass the sceptics/industry lobbies (if they are capable of > >>>being embarassed) e.g., through a reliable lead reporter for > >>>Science or Nature. Offending editors could be labelled as "rogue > >>>editors", in line with current international practice? Or is that > >>>defamatory? (d) Legal action might be useful for authors who > >>>consider themselves libelled, and there could be financial support > >>>for such actions (Jim Salinger might have contacts here). However, > >>>we would need to be very careful to be moderate and reasonable in > >>>our reponses to avoid counter legal actions. > >>> > >>>4. I thoroughly agree that just entering in to a public slanging > >>>match with the offending authors (or editors for that matter) on a > >>>one-to-one basis is not the way to go. We need some more concerted > >>>action. > >>> > >>>5. One other thought is that it may be worthwhile for some authors > >>>to do a serious further study to bring out some statistical tests > >>>for the likelihood of numerous proxy records showing unprecedented > >>>synchronous warming in the last 30+ years. This could be, somewhat > >>>along the lines of the tests used in the studies of observed > >>>changes in biological and physical systems in the TAR WGII > >>>report(SPM figure 1 and related text in Chapter 19, and recent > >>>papers by Parmesan and Yohe (2003) and Root et al. (2003) in Nature > >>>421, 37-42 and 57-60). Someone may already have this in hand. I am > >>>sure the evidence is even stronger than for the critters. That is > >>>of course what has already been done in fingerprinting the actual > >>>temperature record. > >>> > >>>Anyway, I am not one of the authors, and too busy (for a retired > >>>person), so I hope you can collectively get something going which I > >>>can support. > >>> > >>>Best regards to all, > >>> > >>>Barrie. > >>> > >>>Dr. A. Barrie Pittock > >>>Post-Retirement Fellow, Climate Impact Group > >>>CSIRO Atmospheric Research, PMB 1, Aspendale 3195, Australia > >>>Tel: +613 9239 4527, Fax: +61 3 9239 4688, email: > >>> WWW: > >>>http://www.dar.csiro.au/res/cm/impact.htm > >>> > >>>Please Note: Use above address. The old >>>barrie.pittock@dar.csiro.au> is no longer supported. > >>> > >>>Currently I am working on a couple of books and other writing re > >>>climate change and science issues. Please refer any matters re the > >>>Climate Impact Group to Dr. Peter Whetton, Group Leader, at > >>>, tel.: > >>>+61 3 9239 4535. Normally I am in the lab Tuesdays and Thursdays. > >>> > >>>"Far better and approximate answer to the right question which is > >>>often vague, than an exact answer to the wrong question which can > >>>always be made precise." J. W. Tukey > >>> > >>> > >>>-----Original Message----- > >>>From: Phil Jones [mailto:p.jones@uea.ac.uk] > >>>Sent: Wednesday, 16 April 2003 6:23 PM > >>>To: Mike Hulme; Barrie.Pittock@csiro.au > >>>Cc: n.nicholls@bom.gov.au; Peter.Whetton@csiro.au; > >>>Roger.Francey@csiro.au; David.Etheridge@csiro.au; > >>>Ian.Smith@csiro.au; Simon.Torok@csiro.au; Willem.Bouma@csiro.au; > >>>j.salinger@niwa.com; pachauri@teri.res.in; Greg.Ayers@csiro.au; > >>>Rick.Bailey@csiro.au; Graeme.Pearman@csiro.au Subject: Re: Recent > >>>climate sceptic research and the journal Climate Research > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Dear All, > >>> There have been a number of emails on these two papers. They > >>> are bad. > >>>I'll be seeing > >>> Hans von Storch next week and I'll be telling him in person what > >>> a > >>>disservice he's doing > >>> to the science and the status of Climate Research. > >>> I've already told Hans I want nothing more to do with the > >>> journal. Tom > >>>Crowley may be > >>> writing something - find out also next week, but at the EGS last > >>> week Ray > >>>Bradley, Mike > >>> Mann, Malcolm Hughes and others decided it would be best to do > >>> nothing. > >>>Papers > >>> that respond to work like this never get cited - a point I'm > >>> trying to > >>>get across to Hans. > >>> We all have better papers to write than waste our time > >>> responding to > >>>drivel like this. > >>> > >>> Cheers > >>> Phil > >> > >>Prof. Phil Jones > >>Climatic Research Unit Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090 > >>School of Environmental Sciences Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784 > >>University of East Anglia > >>Norwich Email p.jones@uea.ac.uk > >>NR4 7TJ > >>UK > >>-------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>-------- > > > >_____________________________________________________________________ > >__ > > Professor Michael E. Mann > > Department of Environmental Sciences, Clark Hall > > University of Virginia > > Charlottesville, VA 22903 > >_____________________________________________________________________ > >__ e-mail: mann@virginia.edu Phone: (434) 924-7770 FAX: (434) > >982-2137 > > http://www.evsc.virginia.edu/faculty/people/mann.shtml > > Prof. Phil Jones > Climatic Research Unit Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090 > School of Environmental Sciences Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784 > University of East Anglia > Norwich Email p.jones@uea.ac.uk > NR4 7TJ > UK > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > > ********************************************************* Dr Jim Salinger, CRSNZ NIWA P O Box 109 695 Newmarket, Auckland New Zealand Tel + 64 9 375 2053 Fax + 64 9 375 2051 e-mail: j.salinger@niwa.co.nz ********************************************************** The following section of this message contains a file attachment prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format. If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any another MIME-compliant system, you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer. If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance. ---- File information ----------- File: New Zealand Herald pieces with Chris de Freitas.doc Date: 22 Apr 2003, 22:15 Size: 57344 bytes. Type: Unknown Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\New Zealand Herald pieces with Chris de Freitas.doc"